Angus Scrimm Interview (All Things Phantasm!)

 

Scrimm Fairy Tales

 NOTE: I was going through some old hard-drives and found this interview with the late Angus Scrimm, which I think dates back to 2008, eight years before his passing. I thought it might be nice to share it here.

So let’s begin with an obvious question Angus; what on earth is happening with Phantasm? Are we going to see The Tall Man in action again?

I have read four or five scripts for another Phantasm over the years and the most prominent of them was, of course, the one written by Roger Avary. That was a really exciting prospect but to do it right it would have cost $12 million, which is not a lot by the standard of most budgets but it was still more than anyone wanted to invest (laughs). The last script I read was long and also a bit wordy. It was penned by a guy called Stephen Romano, who worked with Don on his Masters of Horror episode – which I am proud to say I was a part of. However, I know that if Don could raise the financing, maybe through some rich fan who wants to produce movies, he would pull another one out of his sleeve as soon as possible. But right now there is no news to report I am afraid.

The Phantasm series is difficult to really pigeonhole. It is part horror, part science fiction and part fantasy. Were you a fan of these genres prior to getting your break in the original film? 

You know, I could never connect with science fiction. I used to buy these pulp sci-fi magazines with great covers and the stories would just bore me (laughs). Horror, however, I always liked. I was not allowed to see any horror movies until I was 12 and at that point Universal had reissued Dracula and Frankenstein on a double bill. I thought they were incredible in the theatre. That ignited a lust in me to see more horror movies and I recall seeing The Wolf Man, which they reissued shortly afterwards, and I tried to see every other Universal classic after that. And fantasy… Yes, fantasy is delightful, but it was horror which I liked the most.

In the Phantasm films you are given very little to say. Of course, this eventually becomes the beauty of your character but – nevertheless – during the making of the original movie did you ever try and push Don Coscarelli to give you more dialogue?

 No I did not (laughs). After all, acting is not just reciting dialogue – although I do love to have some delicious lines – but it did not occur to me until after I saw the first movie that, yes, I did have very little to say. However, I actually contributed one of the lines in the original Phantasm. It was when I say, “you play a good game boy but the game is finished. Now you die.” I was sitting in the dressing room and I jotted that line down on a piece of paper and thought about bringing it up to Don. However, I decided otherwise and then forgot all about it. Well Don went into the dressing room, found the scrap piece of paper and then, when we got into ADR, he had me record that very line over the scene where The Tall Man is walking ominously through the park. Now if I hadn’t thought of that I would just have had four lines of dialogue (laughs).

Did you ever have any discussions with Don about The Tall Man? I have sat through all four Phantasm films and he remains quite a mystery doesn’t he?

Yes he does, I am not sure you can explain him, but we never really had any deep intellectual discussions about the character. In fact, some of our discussions were after-the-fact. I remember that we were flying around the United States and Australia publicising the first movie when it came out and I know that at some point we both agreed that The Tall Man probably represented the grim reaper in the boy’s mind. Now, interestingly, I got to play The Grim Reaper in a television series that Mel Brooks had called The Nutt House. It was only on for one season but it was about an unsuccessful hotel and the lobby looked like a desert wasteland, with a cactus blowing in the wind. Well The Grim Reaper dashed across in one scene and Mel cast me in the part because he was a big fan of Phantasm.

 

After Phantasm was released did you anticipate being typecast in horror films?

Oh, I was so naïve (laughs). I had made a few films before Phantasm and none of them had done any business. So after Phantasm took off I thought “wow, now my career is made! Hollywood will recognise me and I will be cast.” But even after I got an agent and got into the Screen Actor’s Guild nothing much happened. I remember being called up for Caddyshack, the Chevy Chase movie, because they thought I was a huge fellow. Well it turned out I wasn’t – Don just made me look that way - so they cast someone who was much bulkier and taller instead. So the success of Phantasm did not do much for me. A director called Jim Wynorski, who was a fan of it, put me in the movie called Inland Empire, which was fun but it almost went straight to video. However, since then I have worked with Jim on other things and we get along very well. Nonetheless, the well was self-limiting after Phantasm. Nobody in the movies had a role for The Tall Man. My reputation has grown very slowly and it has done better recently because a lot of the teenaged boys who saw these films, and grew up with them, have begun making movies and they are casting me in their projects. That is how I got a recurring role on the series Alias for example and a director/ producer called Larry Fassenden has been using me… I don’t know if you know about him but he has independent means to make films – he produced one project called The Roost, which is very good, and he also raised the money for a picture called Liberty Kid, which is a fantastic drama set just after 9/11 where two employees at the Statue of Liberty are laid off due to security fears.

Indeed, I have noticed from your imdb profile that you have been keeping very busy of late…

Yes, and I have to mention the work that I have done with Larry. For instance, I was in a very good horror film that he produced called The Off Season and I also did something called Automatons for him – which good great reviews. Now, this was a micro-budgeted movie about robots fighting the last war after humankind has been killed off. It is in black and white with deliberately scratchy sound and The New York Times, The Village Voice and The Post all gave it very good reviews. I also need to mention a movie called The Last Winter, which Larry directed. That one stars James LeGros from Phantasm II, alongside Ron Perlman, and it is about some people drilling for oil in Alaska but then nature turns against them and kills them off one by one. Quite deliberately. 

I might be in the minority here but my favourite Phantasm movie is the second one. It plays as a beefed up version of the first film, only with better special effects and an even more delirious atmosphere. Yet, ironically, it was also the most troubled of the lot…

Well, first of all, I like them all and I cannot pick a favourite. I certainly enjoy watching Phantasm II so I cannot argue with you there. Of course, I did miss Michael Baldwin, who never got to return and play the part of Mike (Note: He was replaced, at studio behest, by James LeGros), but it was wonderful to go in and make a movie that lasts for five weeks and has a big studio behind it. You also don’t have to worry about money and you get paid a little better. On the whole Phantasm II was a good experience but there was certainly some studio interference that upset Don and that was unfortunate. There were also a couple of things that I strongly objected to. For instance, I don’t like to see The Tall Man being treated disrespectfully and I hated the scene where James LeGros pulled the sphere out of the wall and throws it at me and says “suck on this!” I was irate at that and I suggested that they change it to “let’s play ball,” which I thought was much cuter. But apparently one of the producer’s came up with “suck on this” so that was that. Nevertheless, overall, I found Phantasm II to be a positive experience and I thought it was a good movie as well.

 

Even so, it underperformed at the box office. Why do you think this was?

It was a shame because Phantasm II had a major opening release in many countries – not just the United States - but I think that Universal made a grave mistake by releasing it in the middle of the summer season. The same week that we opened Rambo III, the Tom Hank’s movie Big, Pee Wee’s Big Adventure and Roger Rabbit also came out. It was the biggest week, to date, in American cinema in terms of the number of major motion pictures that were out at the same time. Universal also wanted to keep everything about Phantasm II hush-hush, so it had obtained no advanced publicity, and it was not until the week before it opened that I began to appear on little local television studios and stuff. I remember that they held a competition to find out how many people could fit in The Tall Man’s Hearst, and I was the judge of that, but that was about it. However, the sequel still performed well, it just wasn’t blockbuster material which was what Universal was hoping for.

And, since then, the Phantasm movies have gone straight to video, which is a bit of a shame…

Well what happened is that when Don went back to the studio with Phantasm III they took it to their DVD section. However, Don’s contract required that Phantasm III have at least two theatrical showings. One was in Taraho, Indiana and I cannot remember where the other was but it was another very small town somewhere. Nevertheless, Phantasm III, in both of these theatres, outperformed every other film that was playing. Even so Universal did not have any intention to do anything but make a pile of money out of the video. Now when Oblivion came along, Don pretty much financed it himself and that was that. However, I knew that, even on a small budget, Oblivion would be well made because I have never seen a Coscarelli movie that was not well made! If he is behind it then it will be good. I still do not know why Don has never become a major Hollywood film director. He has produced films like Beastmaster and Bubba Ho-Tep on a reasonable budget, and they have made money, but yet he has never become as big as he deserves to be.

Diverting from Phantasm then – can you speak about working with the producer Charlie Band on a movie called Subspecies, which you made back in 1991?

Yes, Subspecies was good fun. I know that people have complained about their experience with Charlie Band but I am not one of them (laughs). Subspecies was made in Bucharest where we were the first people to make an English-language film. It was also the first film made there since the Revolution. I remember that there was a lot of dire poverty and the hotel that I stayed in had a bulb on a string, which was the light, and a tap that dripped all day and night. There was one working telephone in the whole place, which was on the main desk, and I ate pork chops that ran red when you cut into them – so I only ate the edges (laughs)… But I can honestly say it was one of the best experiences of my lifetime. The film was made in the hinterlands surrounding old castles, which was beautiful, and Subspecies was quite popular when it came out. As you probably know there were a lot of sequels. It was silly but people seemed to like it. My agent insisted that I was paid half of my wage before I left and the other half which I got when I returned. So it was a good movie to work on.

 Finally, then, if you had to write the next chapter in the Phantasm series – where do you think The Tall Man would be?

 Oh goodness, that requires a witty answer and I am never good at these quick-fire things (laughs). I think I will have to leave that question to whomever writes the next Phantasm but I am looking forward to finding out!